Tobias Forge, a.k.a. Papa V Perpetua, brings his band Ghost to town on Saturday as part of the Skeletour World Tour.
By Nick Krewen
Special to the Star
“Do we need mysterious bands? Absolutely.”
So sayeth Papa V Perpetua, a.k.a. Tobias Forge, leader and frontman of the Swedish metal band Ghost, who performs in demonic face paint and dressed in papal robes and mitre.
In this modern age of music, where information about artists is widely and readily available and secrets are difficult to maintain, Forge longs for a return to a time when bands played with mystique and anonymity.
Initially, Ghost had both: the unidentified lead vocalist, surrounded by masked and costumed musicians known only as Nameless Ghouls, sang quasi-satanic lyrics over melodic, symphonic metal both on record and during highly theatrical concerts, complete with elaborate sets and pyrotechnics.
But the veil was lifted in 2017 when several Nameless Ghouls disclosed the identity of the Ghost mastermind in a lawsuit over defined roles and finances, a case that was eventually dismissed in Forge’s favour.
The outcome hardly hurt Ghost commercially: their sixth album, Skeletá, released last April, became their first to top the Billboard 200; the single “Lachryma” is nominated for best metal performance at Sunday’s Grammy Awards; and they headline Scotiabank Arena on Saturday, part of the 20-date second leg of their Skeletour World Tour.
But did Forge feel any artistic compromise from being forced to go public?
“It was unfortunate that the anonymity aspect got ruined that way,” he told the Star during a recent Zoom interview. “In hindsight, it didn’t really ruin much, because it was not like we were going from being a successful band to not being one, which I’m sure was the intention.
“I also knew very well that having spent six years trying to have an ‘anonymous’ band — but at the same time trying to achieve popularity with touring and playing bigger shows and having to sometimes unintuitively swim against the stream, where we had to ask for all this special treatment everywhere — it was actually a relief.”
Forge said that because he no longer had to conceal himself, “I could just be pretty normal in my approach and my daily M.O.”
However, he admits he’s not a fan of social media and the barrage of information and gossip it generates.
“I think it would behoove mankind in general to have a lower intake of impressions,” Forge said. “Eighteen years ago, when the idea (of Ghost) came up and it really started to form, it was in the early throes of social media.”
At the time he was already bothered by social media’s potential for overexposure, he said, “which was obviously relative to what I intended the band to become. We went way, way beyond that. We’re overexposed now and people generally regard us as a mainstream band.
“I don’t want to tell anyone that they’re enjoying music in the wrong way, but I think that there was something natural and intuitive and harmonious in the exchange that a fan and artists had pre-social media, where you did an interview on TV … and maybe you had a song on the radio. You were in the ether, but you made an impression and then it took three weeks until something else happened.”
In the last decade and a half, he said, the way some artists have exposed themselves so as not to lose momentum “is just sickening.”
While Ghost albums like 2015’s Meliora, 2018’s Prequelle and 2022’s Impera feature their share of blasphemy, they also explore themes like the bubonic plague and the rise and fall of empires.
Forge says there are nuances within the music that apply to everyone.
“If you want to be pragmatic, or be a little bit more esthetic and philosophical, lyrically and thematically — if you look beyond the face value of (the music) being dark and satanic and all those things — underneath it all, it’s about being human and has very little to do with divinity.
He also believes that through his music and lyrics and other communication, he has formed another connection to his fans, “where they realize that we are very much alike.
“That adds a certain glue between Ghost, myself and fans.”
Forge currently embodies the character of Papa V Perpetua — previous papal personas lasted a limited time, died and then were reborn on stage — a pattern that, like Ghost itself, grew out of a lark.
“It wasn’t necessarily just a character,” said Forge, who earlier fronted the Swedish death metal band Repugnant. “It came after the first handful of songs had been written. We were not a band at the time. It was me and a friend (ex-Repugnant bassist Gustaf Lindström) who played in bands together. As grown-ups, we felt like life was over. We were 25, 26 and we were talking about how we need a band to be in together.
“He had a daughter and I had two kids and I just want something that could capture all these things that I love musically, but also theatrically, as opposed to just being in a punk cover band.”
The pair spent two weekends in 2008 recording Forge’s songs, which formed the basis of Ghost’s 2010 debut album, Opus Eponymous.
“It was clear to me that this is not just like some band with jeans and chicks: this needs to be an image band, something cooler than that. I was also practical: if we play our cards right, maybe I can write more songs and we can skip the bar shows.”
Forge also admitted his take on the pontiff was inspired in part by his childhood idol, Danish heavy metal rocker King Diamond (also the singer in Mercyful Fate), known for face makeup that features Christian crosses.
Forge wasn’t even planning on becoming Ghost’s singer. “For the longest time, I was working on the premise that I was going to be the guitar player. We needed to find someone else to be this pope guy. That’s how loosey-goosey it was,” he said.
“It obviously played out differently.”
Since Ghost’s Toronto debut at the Mod Club back in January 2012, Forge has been a frequent visitor to the city, which holds a special place in his heart as the home of his touring bassist, Rain. Also known as Cosmo Sniderman, Rain is the grandson of legendary music retailer Sam “The Record Man” Sniderman.
“So, playing Toronto is always going to be sort of a hometown show, just because of that,” Forge said. “You know, I’m a Swede and I love hockey, so the fact that (late Maple Leaf) Börje Salming played there is a big deal.
“My overall impression of the town is always a great memory. I love the city and many things about it.”